Does being a woman make it harder to gain credibility in IR? Does gender impact the recognition you get for your work? A snap poll at the recent IR Magazine Forum – Women in IR saw the women in the room answer with a resounding – and disappointing – ‘yes’. Almost a third agreed that gaining credibility and recognition has been more challenging as a woman, while nearly a fifth (19 percent) agreed strongly. Just 12 percent said this had not been their experience.
The poll kicked off a session titled ‘Breaking barriers: Stories and tips from successful women in the field’, moderated by Lauren McDonald, IR Magazine conference producer, with a panel that certainly filled the brief: Ellen Cavaleri, senior vice president of IR and communications at Lyra Therapeutics, Shivani Kak, head of IR at Moody’s and Jami Taylor, senior vice president and head of IR at Coherus BioSciences.

All three talked about the ways in which they are supported at their current company, with Kak in particular pointing to the many senior roles held by women at Moody’s.
‘At Moody’s, I don’t feel in any way that I can’t be successful because of my gender,’ she said. ‘When you look at some of the stats we put out for our ratings business – for which we’re better known than our analytics – the global head of every single ratings group is a woman. That’s $74 tn of rated debt that women are responsible for globally. Knowing you are going to be valued regardless of gender gives you that comfort level.’
Kak also pointed out what everyone in the room knew, however: often, you might be the only woman in the room – and she advised others not to be intimidated. ‘When I go to conferences, I would say that across the table, less than 5 percent of the people I meet with are women – and that is really disappointing because you hear about ESG and diversity and getting more women involved in the financial industry,’ she noted.
Here are some top tips and anecdotes from the session.
Remember you’re here because you’re good
‘Whenever I have self-doubt or imposter syndrome, I take a step back and think: I represent not just the company, but also the senior managers,’ said Kak. ‘They wouldn’t have me in the role if they didn’t feel confident I was doing a good job.’
Noting how easy it is to get hung up on a small thing, she also advised taking the big-picture approach. ‘I look at all the good things I’m doing and that my team is doing,’ she said. ‘You can get caught up on your failings, especially as a woman, but take a step back [and think], Actually, I’m pretty brilliant at other things – and I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t.’
But have the confidence to say: ‘I don’t know – I’ll get back to you’
‘IR feels like I’m constantly in an episode of Jeopardy where my company and the financials are the what and the who,’ joked Kak. ‘So how you build credibility is by having that history and knowledge and being able to answer off the top of your head.’ That doesn’t mean you always have to have the answer to hand, however. ‘You also need the confidence to say, I don’t know that. But I’ll get back to you,’ stressed the New York-based Brit, who also quipped: ‘The accent helps as well!’
And recognize there’s a lot you can’t control
‘If I could give myself any advice going back, it would probably be to recognize that when you’re working in an IR role, there’s a lot you can’t control,’ said Taylor. ‘There are wars and there are macro events, there are big shifts in the economy, there are new competitors that sprout up. And there’s a beauty to tracking that, but there’s [also] an inevitability to your own limits – and you can derive a certain amount of confidence when you let go.’
Think about formal and informal signs of credibility
‘We can establish informal credibility in a lot of ways,’ said Taylor, ‘including showing up with a certain level of confidence and really doing that homework so that we are a resource. And then I found in my career that formal signs of credibility are really important as well.’ She recalled an incident where her strategic input was questioned by a male general counsel: ‘I thought, I want every sign of credibility I can offer.’
Taylor explained that data presented to her on an executive education course at Harvard Kennedy School called Women and Power, suggested that – at the time – for women to be paid the same as men, they needed two graduate degrees for every undergraduate degree a man holds. ‘My response was, I’ll go get two master’s degrees,’ said Taylor. ‘I saw, as I layered master’s upon master’s – and I threw another one into the mix, because I was on a roll at a certain point – that it really did stave off any questions about my credibility.’
Be practical in the face of imposter syndrome
For Taylor, addressing any feelings of self-doubt starts with self-awareness. But tackling a practical problem that might have triggered those feelings involves taking practical steps. Is something ‘an opportunity to build out a memo to the board to talk about what may have driven [a particular] development?’ she asked. If a prediction has not lived up to expectations, does that offer an opportunity to showcase your analytical skills as to why something has gone in a different direction, for example?
‘There are lots of ways we can manage self-doubt,’ continued Taylor, including ‘recognizing that omniscience is an aspiration but an impossibility at the same time, and really appreciating the fact that we can take very practical steps to restore credibility where we think we’ve lost it, and restore our own sense of confidence where we need to.’
Put yourself in the shoes of the CEO or CFO
Cavaleri shared that often, when her instinct is to go to the CEO or CFO with a question, she instead puts herself in their shoes and asks: what are they going to tell me? ‘Usually you can answer the question that way,’ she said. ‘Sometimes you doubt yourself but you probably already know the answer. If you think it through and take an educated guess, you’re probably doing the right thing.’
Avoid the likeability trap
The way women are perceived – as either too nice and easily overlooked or too aggressive when they assert themselves – is something Taylor said she could relate to. ‘I tend to lean warm,’ she said, half-jokingly, revealing that she’s done training on balancing warmth with confidence.
‘Sometimes I have to remind myself that I’m moving too much toward likability as an orientation, recognizing that I need to project confidence or competence, often employing ‘micro tactics’ to do so.’ She added that she tries to bring a sense of humor to it, but recognized that many women fall into this trap.
And it’s not about changing who you are, she stressed. ‘The question is: how can I maintain authenticity while also projecting confidence?’ she said. ‘There are ways to do that. No one makes a better slide deck than I do. No one writes a better earnings script than I do. I love being nice to people and liking people and being liked back, but it’s also about bringing out that confident side and making sure you don’t fall into a place of diminution in the process.’
Cavaleri agreed the balance can be tricky, advising seeking an outside opinion – from a friend or partner, perhaps – if you’re in doubt on tone. ‘It’s very hard to find that balance but just practicing and getting other people’s opinions can help,’ she said.
The work-life equation
This brought the panel onto another big question for women in IR – and anywhere else: how to manage the work-life balance, with kids or without.
In a statement women across all professions can relate to, Cavaleri (who shared that she has a two-and-a-half-year-old and a nine-month-old) said: ‘I sleep less than I did. My workout materials are covered in dust. But it’s temporary, and you’ll get through it. You just have to accept that it’s kind of a crazy hard time in your life but it’s not forever.’
Shivani talked about some tactics she employs to try to address the work-life balance somewhat for herself and her team at Moody’s. ‘We block off our calendars as a team – no meetings Friday afternoons from about two o’clock,’ she explained. ‘So unless there’s a conference or it’s something critical, the IR team is essentially closed to do catch-up on email and do our admin because otherwise you just don’t have time.’
Look for support where you need it
Shivani also shared another top tip: borrow an earnings support puppy!
‘I borrow a friend’s dog I take for walks in the run-up to earnings, because I just need to step away from my computer and go for a walk in Central Park with this puppy who loves me,’ she said, adding that if you don’t block out time for yourself, it’s a question of: how long is a piece of string?
‘There’s always another email, there’s always another question, there’s always another document to review,’ she pointed out. ‘You need to be disciplined about yourself and your personal time – just as disciplined as you are with delivering on other tasks.’